Mile-High Insights on Denver’s Startup Sector w/ JP Ferro and Kendra Haberkorn

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Denver is shaping up to be a hotspot for American startups. COVID has accelerated Denver’s tech scene and it one of the most talked about tech hubs right now.

It's 33% cheaper to build a business in Denver than it is Silicon Valley. Plus, Denver has the talent to lead your startup, a moderate political climate and an excellent infrastructure.

Here's what you need to know about growing your startup a mile high.

In this episode of Startup Success, Kate Adams talks with Kendra Haberkorn and JP Ferro. Kendra is head of talent at Range Ventures and JP serves as accelerator and incubator relationship manager at Burkland.

JP and Kendra discussed:

  • All the details on Denver’s startup market
  • What the talent scene looks like in Denver
  • How to network in the Denver startup community
  • What Denver has to offer outside the startup ecosystem

This discussion with Kendra Haberkorn and JP Ferro was taken from our show Startup Success. If you want to hear more episodes like this one, check us out on Apple Podcasts.

If you don’t use Apple Podcasts, you can find every episode here.

Welcome to start up success, thepodcast for startup founders and investors here you'll find stories ofsuccess from others in the trenches as they work to scale some of the fastestgrowing startups in the world stories that will help you in your own journeystart up. Success starts now today and start up success. I'm really excited.We are going to be discussing the Denver startup market. It is going tobe a fun conversation to delve into because right now, there's so many techareas in the United States that are booming and Denver is one of thoseareas. So I'm excited to have Kendrehavercorn, who is head of talentat range ventures, an early stage ventured or capital firm backing techentrepreneurs in Colorado with us and JP Pharaoh? Who is here with theBrooklyn team? He is our accelerator and incubator relationship manager andJP is also based in Denver and very familiar with the startup market there.So thank you both for being here Kender. Why don't we get started with you andif you could tell us a little bit about range ventures and what you gall aredoing out in Denver? That would be great wourse. Well, thank you so muchfor having me. I love talking about Denver. I love talking about startupsand any chance I get to talk about both Denver and startups is a really greatconversation. So range ventures is an early stage. Venture capital firm. Weclosed a twenty three million dollar round last year and our goal is toinvest in the best most ambitious early stage companies here in the GreaterDenver area. We exist for a few reasons. First, there's exclosive birth here inthe DUNVER techigo systems and early stage founders were also expressing aneed to have more access to local capital. So range ventures is here toPRINC fill that me. We provide great founders with access to operatingexpertise, capital, towit networks and...

...importantly, local support. Oh that'sawesome. I mean JP you've been out there for a while. Are you were youseeing a need for that too? Absolutely Kate and Kendra so great tobe introduced to range and meeting you at some point this year as well.Definitely Kats O answer your question. I think denvers a growing market forsure I think you know. After a rocky year coming off of two thousand andtwenty a lot of people on the coasts are rethinking. You know where theywant to be long term or even short term. So I think there's a lot of opportunityfor startups and Denver a especially for the earlier stage companies andbringing much more of a need for for ferms like range ventures. Absolutelythat's awesome! So kender you mentioned some things that founders need withinrange like the operating. You know, efficiency, ideas and talent. Thingslike that, in addition to just making investments- and I don't mean justinvestments because that's a big deal, what kind of other things you know arrange doing? Well importantly, are two investment partners? ADAMBUROUGHS andChris Erikson bring years of actual operating expertise into the mix, sothey have both been up part of and felp shape and impact, but start up throughevery stage of growth and success. Beyond their individual expertise, wehave a broad group of lks and their lps, who represent some of the regions, mostprominent founders and CEOS executives and investors, and because we have sucha broad and deep network within the community, we're able to work with themto help attract, develop and support allly staged sartups throughout theirgrowth and their kind of evolution. An transpormation and then I'm here inFrort of what I'm here to do is to be one or two degrees away from reallygreat talent in every discipline. So my goal is to establish relationships withpeople who want to be a part of who wants to advise, or maybe some day,hopefully someday start a company here and the longer relationship that wehave in place. The more trust there is- and we want to be that firm- that earlysage founders call when they're ready...

...to raise money, and they want thatfirst check. Well, that's exciting and Jpso you're focused on incubators andaccelerators out in Denver. What I mean. What are you saying like? What areas ofsupport are there where, if you're a founder, you know you're thinking aboutyour Ardiin, Denver or you're thinking of where you're going to go? WHY DENVER?What are you saying? Yeah? That's a great question, Kate and Kendro thatthere's some really great insights just into launch and Okati. Think, obviously,you know breadfeld is local to boulder and he founded Tech Stars, which is aprominent accelerator throughout the country in the world, and you knowgoing into two thousand and twenty one. I think there's a lot of exciting. Youknow sectors to be out on the watch, for you know: Space Exploration,genemics and so forth. You know I was at an event last week just about acohort that Tech Stars is planning on Lanching this launching the summeraround space exploration and, obviously you know we're talked into the rockies.We have Colorado Springs. You know an our south of Denver where we have anair force, bace, laky, Barton, Aero, electronics, there's all these justdifferent companies and this great ecosystem. That's supporting you know avariety of industries. You know food and beverage, consumer, obviously,healthcare tech. You name it so I feel like there's it's a great time to becoming into the city and starting a company, and that's something that youknow in the bay area and other parts of the United States. There's more of afocus on certain industries is that kind of range ventures. Is that kind ofyour outlook as well Kendra? You know you're open to all different types ofindustries more just early stage or what so yeah super exciting to hearabout all the space exploration. That's yeah that Mi it, but will love tofollow along as people shoot off to the stars. No, we here at range like Ourcol,is to invest in techninabled services, and that means there is a broad sectrumof companies that could kind of inhabit that space and, as like, I talked withChris and Adam about the the type of...

...companies that they've talked to andthey've talked to hundreds over the last several months. What were some ofthe trends that they were seeing? To be honest, it was broad there's a lot ofthings and I think that speaks to the opportunity in Denver that there arediverse problems that founders are looking to self and that there is likea pragmatic threat. That's coming through is people here in Foorado aresolving problems that the world needs solve and that are real problems andnot just necessarily interesting acts or caing. You know devices and not thatthose are' important ind that they don't have their space, but there'sreally interesting problems. A couple of the trends that we've seen recentlyare you know within the B to be sas pace and then also within property text,so that might be one of the places where Denver starts to emerge as aleader, Oh wow, property tax. Interesting. What O you like? What areyou seeing around that yeah? Well, this might be given Adam's backgroundworking a viser where you know, but there is interesting companies like nomad, which happens to be within our cortfolios, so companies that arelooking to solve problems within real estate and transactions that we mightall have as homeowners yeah. So Kendra itould be great to understand a littlebit more about how you thought about your investment and no mad, because Ithink taking a step back. Looking all of the changes that two thousand andtwenty is made, everybody think about in terms of location. You know I spoketo somebody the other week who relocated from the bay to Lake Taho,but just over the California border, on a Nevada so that they could, you know,escape the California taxes and I think Denver is one of those places to andjust noticing, no mads providing two years of guaranteed rental income. Itsmaking people think I'm sure more about nomad. Is they look to expand theirportfolios and to real estate? You know a little bit more of a stableinvestments which I've no doubts that Denver is going to be. You know growingthroughout the next few years and end into the future, so I'd be awesome justto get a little bit of insight, Itto how you thought about nomad and thegrowth that they're I'm sure that...

...they're experiencing right now yeah.Well, I think the adamand Chris, you know, made the investment decision, butone of the things I can say, as the talent partner is working with founderslike PJ and Matt has been one of the biggest benefits right is. You can havea great idea and there are people behind it that help drive the success,and so I think that having people who bring deep industry expertise as wellas a passion for the problem that they're about to solve, is a part ofthe catalyst for while they are successful and on the growth trajectorythat they are on, and I think we tapped into something else about why Denver islike a really exciting place to found a business and build a business. It is aplace that is favorable from a tax perspective from a cost perspective, Obuilding of business, and, if you're going to want to hire great talents, ifyou're going to wanch a scale, a company doing so in an environmentwhere there's a great lifestyle where people can enjoy their lives, have alife and the cost of doing thisiniss is less than it is in certain majormarkets, particularly thoss on the coast, means that the capital that youraiss goes further, that you can continue to invest that intoyourproduct and Yeur people, and that's a great opportunity for founders worelooking to start a company, especially those who, at the early stages. I thinkthat's such an excellent point. Are you seeing that as well JP when you'retalking to your you know, accelerator partners founders, that the cost is adriving factor or was a driving factor? Absolutely I mean I think, from thefolks that I've spoke with in Silk An valley. I think you know a lot offamilies are saying within Silkanvaly, but those who might be single or morereadily able to move our seeking cities to have a different experience in, andyou know, kind of bring wore of that worklife balance into play. If ever, Ithink, integrating you know nature into your life and obviously you'll beworking at night and so forth, but I think you know Denver affords people alot of opportunities. You know I think, coming from the MIDWAST. From myperspective, I think Denver feels like a good hybrid. You know you have theinnovation feel of the West Coast.

You've also got a lot of great peoplein this city to everybody wants to collaborate with one another. It's agreat just welcoming environment as a whole, and I think, at the end of theday you know finances are important to everybody right and I think if you'reyou know, depending on the industry and the type of network you want tosurround yourself with, I think it's always important for founders to thinkabout their corse, dranks and competincies. The people that are goingto help them achieve their goals and really just focusing on that versustrying to you know, pick a city just based on the brands name that it has,and I think denvers got like what we just talked about a little bit earlier.I think denvers got you know various industries with really stronginvestment partners that are able to you know help founders achieve theirgoals from a variety of different spaces. So absolutely to answer thequestion: That's interesting, so you know I remember hearing that there'syou know. I think it was what thirty three percent cheaper to build abusiness. Is that correct thirty, three percent cheeper to build a business inDenver than it is and Silkan Valley? I mean that was the stat yeah that weheard Overta yeah and I think that's very compelling. So that being said, Imean I'm hearing about all this innovation. All these differentindustries. I mean the stuff about the space and just you know it's veryexciting, obviously beautiful. But what about the talent like? Are You findingthe talent? Are there big enough t? You know hiring pools to scale from, andthat kind of thing, because that's one of the things that I know when peopleleave you know the bay area in New York they're always worried about having totalk about that. So I think I'm going to go. I want to travel back in timefor a moment to because I think it helps Pake. The story of why, like thisis a great place for talent and building a company right now in twothousandand, ten Denver had offices for Google and Microsoft and Oracle, and wehave an emerging startup scene with a few companies kind of leading the Weyfast forward. Ten years over, eighty tech companies from the west coast haveeither made hqtos or invested in large...

...scale offices here, whether that'stwitter and zoom, an Amazon, and so we are starting to have companies whorecognize and are bringing their talent to Denver. When you didn't realize itwas that many okay, okay Igot it okay, make your investments you'll, hearabout it almost every week on the news O and then we've had a lot of home grownsuccess over the last several years as well. So it isn't a place where thereis just like a one stop shop for your startup career. There is like breathand depth and we have several uniforns that have merged whether that's IBATAor guild education or Dagologics, and I think now, talents, and especially inlight of the pandemic and the opening of remote work for so many of usthey're, starting to say, like there's, Opportunity, there's opportunity atearly stage, midstage later stage companies or some of those folks whodecide to move to Denver with their large techi employer. They have thechance to start a company or explore new ideas within a generous O. I thinkJCOU mentioned this like it is a community where people will pick up thephone they will show up when we're allowed to show up again and it meetwith you. And so it is a place where, like talent is coming because theircompanies are importing them where the pandemic has accelerated people beinginterested in having a different lift and invicious people are realizing, butthere's a ton of really great companies at every stage here in Denver wherethey can work and grow and advance their career wow. That's awesome, so JPhaving you know, Kendr just laid out a really great argument for a high talentcool. So I'm a startup founder or you know. I have an idea. Tell me where tonetwork. Tell me how to get you know, I'm moving to Denver. How do I gethooked in like what are their groups? Are there? You know certain. You knowyou mentioned Tech Stars, but what else absolutely I mean there's greatresources on the web, like Builton, Colorado and so forth. You know, Ithink, just being creative with searching around an linkedin. You knowconnecting with others who are in the...

...similar space as yourself. I think thatyou any founder would find themselves. You know welcome in this communitybecause it's a melting pot like most of the people that I speak with coundry,I'm not sure if you have the same experience but most aren't natives andthe people who are natives to Colorado, proudly proclaime that so it's you knownot a exclusive community really by any means, which is amazing right. It'ssuper welcoming to really anybody WHO's trying to make a name for themselvesand Denver Colorado as a whole and Kendra. I think Hou made an interestingpoint as well. I think the pandemics certainly just accelerated this wholeidea that you really can work from anywhere. We lived in a techinabledworld beforehand, but I definitely think the pandemic kind of acceleratedthat you know tenfold and I think you nailed it on the Headridt. We've hadMicrosoft, Oricle at presence here for quite some time, but I was readingStetwa. I think we've had around thirty five Colorado based IPOS, just in thelast five years somewhere between thirty and thirty five. I believe andimpassive yeah exactly- and I mean just in this last year or two we've hadheadquarter relocations like Palantier from Silkan Valley to Denver, and thenyou know, as we speak, about Oracle worcal move from silcan theirheadquarters from Silkon Valley to Austin, Texas, so there's definitely alot of moving around and which is interesting to see and Kendu. Onequestion I had for you specifically relating to range ventures. One thingthat I think is awesome. That goes a little bit under the radar that I thinkit's important for founders. To think about is how you have those a hundred,limited partners, backing range vectures and how their experiencerelates to companies based in Colorado. Like yeld education, I bought a and thelist goes on. Could you talk a little bit about how that network? Can youknow, help foster, arrange companies, goals, N and bed themselves evenfurther into the Colorado community and so forth? Yeah. Absolutely that's agreat question I think. Having such a Brad and talented group of lps is anadvantage, especially for an early...

...stage fund. When you have a hundredpeople out there who are committed to helping to build the next generation oftech companies in Denver and who are working with and collaborating withrange to do so, they're going to provide introductions right so we'regoing to meet founders before they even realize that they're ready to found acompany or in the earliest stage, because they have trust with the personwho does the intro. This is not just a COL intro it'll be an introduction tosomebody that maybe an LP has worked with either Chris or Adam or myself,and those are exciting and great opportunities to take advantage of.Also, once the company has been invested in by range. There are peoplethat, like you, can tap at every stage of growth, so ourlts have navigated allof the challenges. All of the crisis, the chaos of every stage of growth andthey've come away with lessons and expertise and wisdom, they're there tobe a sounding board and a partner, and so I think, being able to tap not onlylike your investors, expertise but a roter rangees people who represent alldifferent backgrounds and disciplines who built companies of you know: BTB J,se etce they're going to be able to share those insights and help ourfounders along the way and the more you know you want to be a degree or twoaway. Having a hundred people out there willing to kind of like refer, you opena door, you know kind of lift. Someone up is a really great advantage andsomething that I think were just beginning to see the fruits of URLPnetwork start to to play out a few months in to kind of like the fundbeing out and public in the world. No, that's amazing, yeah. What INEESORC Imean. I think when, if you can go so comvaliabbly area there've been, youknow, there's been a decade and more of great success, and there are so manypeople there. It is the probably the most concentrated place on earth wherethere are people who have started and succeeded in building tech companieswho have raised. You know billions and...

...billions of dollars collectively, andso I think one of the things that is different is that, like you constantlyexpose to those stories, you know the names and I think one of the thingsthat like Denver is emergingin but still has room to continue to growwithin, is making sure that we have those like mentors those successstories who can help advise the founders who are following in theirfootsteps? And you know we have our LP network and that's just a start andthere's a lot of really exceptional founders and leaders and tech companieshere in Denver. But we still haven't achieved the concentration that the bayarea has, and so I think one of the opportunities is to continue to connectthose dots so that people feel like they have access to somebody who canshare a story, provide context and advise them at different stages, andthat's just something that, like, I feel very confident. If we pick up thisconversation in three or four years, it'll be an even better story, a d withthe momentum that we have right now. But I do think that that's an advantagethat the bay area has there are also some of the leading venture capitalfunds, ind firms out in the bay area, and so like it's nice to be able tolook around. You Find Brilliant, innovative, techleader startingcompanies of which there's no shortage in the bay area and they're lucky. Theydon't have to go far. They don't have to explore. You know new and emergingplaces to necessarily deploy their capital and have great wins and greatsuccess stories were increasingly seeing those funds, by the way, likeSaquoa, like General Patalyst, like Bessimer, start to make investments inColorado, which is a great story for all of us right. That eyes are comminghere that we're starting to see a momentum and potential and that they'reseeing it too. But there are more funds. There are more investors for everystage that you will encounter as a founder and as a leader of a tephcompany in the bay area, and so range is here to start to solve that gap andfill that gap at the at the earliest stages. But there's still anopportunity, I think, for founders as...

...they progressed through the growth andtransformation of their companies and start to raise those subsquent roundsto need to have relationships with a broader group of Vinter capitalpurtners, and so that's an opportunity that I think we'll start to see more ofand more opportunity in Denver. But certainly we haven't caught up to thebig area qut. Yet I think that's a good point because, as you know, Denverstart up scale they'll need. You know that continued investment and resources,but on the flipside of that a lot of the VC firms in the bay area arefinding it so difficult the political climate in the business environment.Here you know they're starting to send their dollars out more and more. Whatis the climate you know like in in Denver politically? Is it prettycentrist and kind of PRO building business? That kind of thing and Dif?You feel free tetermen to I'll give you one win of. Vew Is yes, it is more of aMaret litical Vilon. We have a history of you know both sides cmean togetherto do great things and one of the great things that I think over the last tenyears, we've really seen an impact in is continuing to make it a verycompetitive inviable place for people to start and build a business. We haveaccessible leaders. So a lot of the leaders within our business communityhave access to our mayor, our governor, and they are. They can help be part ofHEP shape policy decisions that will continue to make this a place wherehiring people building a company. Investing back in the city is somethingthat's possible, and so I think Denver has made a commitment. A Denver inCloorado were proably, have made the commitment to invest in infrastructureand other things that are going to make Denver a place where it is attractiveand viuable. So you have a company that thrives and a company that thribes,whether you're a three person company, three hundred or three thousand, and Ithink that that's a really great...

...community to be a part of and thatartech leaders can have access to the people who are making those decisionsand that that it is a more collaborative kind of public privatesector relationship. So far, yeah catter, I think that's all very wellside- and I think you know Brian for mybada spoke a little bit about this onthe episode from September. But I think, having political leaders who arewilling to work with the business community is extremely important,because they'll lay the framework of how you know. Future businesses aregoing to be able to do business in the city state that they're that they're inand his experience. It seems to be very very great with with politicians hereand I think it's more of an open dialogue wherein other markets youmight not be able to have that access to working alongside political leadersand ensuring that you know the road ahead looks good for everybody involved.So definitely I think Colorado is you know, moderate n hole aspects of theword. You know politically from a tax perspective, both income and propertytaxes, I think, are pretty fair and stand out right. So that's that'sawesome to hear Mer perspective, I'd like that JP, how you phrased it to asopen dialogue, because I think that is unique. You don't see that in a lot oftach cities right now. That's not the case. You know some are even fightingthe expansion, as some more and more startups are coming here. So I thinkthat's a really important point. So I'm hearing you know talent, infrastructure,we've got investment, we've got you know, Tech Stars and other resources.Okay. So as we wind down before you know you let our listeners know whereto reach you something fun from each of you that you like to do in Denver likea museum, Certain Hike, because people listening to this, if they haven'talready been they're, probably going to be going once we all get our covid. Youknow post covid freedom, so maybe one or two recommendations of you knowsomething to see. YOR DO IN DENVER.

Take so yeah I can Ka. I can kick usoff, so there's, there's quite a few, and before I get into that, I think onething youse mentioned Kat was about infrastructure and I think a weirdlittle thing that calls it's special to me. I guess about Denver and Coloradoas a whole is the Colorado River actually starts here in the rockies andthat basically hydrates a big portion of the southwest, and you know this iskind of little bit forward thinking, but I think water is one of our world'smost valuable resources D, I'd love, making my way out to the mountains. Ithink skiing is a big reason that that drew me out to Colorado. steamboatsprings is my absolute favorite mountain to go to, and you know anothercomments on infrastructure believe r they're still working on that extralane. onitwenty five or I seventy excuse me so that should take care of alot of the traffic problems that are coming with just all of the growth thatcoloriter seeing. So I'm certainly excited about that and then I'm a bigfoody as well. We've got a couple great sushi places to call out Oshi Sushi denSh. Yes, I know you would't think of it right because we'repretty lad lockwe're very landlick say a least, but there are some there's three reallygreat Sushi restaurants and Kendrive nots. Sure if you've been but UCHI, youknow Sushi Sasa and Sushi den and their sister restaurants are just outstandingand you'll have to try it to believe it, because I know we are literally in themiddle of the country, but I think the skiing is one of my favorite things todo out here on the weekend. Oh, I love it. That sounds awesome. That's angreat to note about the freeway highway expansion because I've sat pre covidsome traffic there. So that's good news! No! What about you? KANDRA YEAH! I thinkone of the things that's really munique about Denver is you can be in the partof the city and you look lest, and you see like those majestic mountains andwhen you're not stuck in traffic or if you have the opportunity to take anafternoon, start rearly or do it on a a week day. You can like get access tosome of the most beautiful landscapes in every single season, and you don'thave to go far. You can do the flat...

...irons in volder ND. You can do gardenop the gods in Colado Spring, so iwould say outdoor life is something that'sexceptionin Colorado and what we're known for, but it's a more increasinglylike urban village oriented city to like one ofthe things, I think is sogreat to do in Denver, is actually put on a pair of tennis, shues and walkaround. You can walk from downtown to wash part to platpark capital hillwithin an hour. You know there in back or even take a two hour, walk and puffin an Ouber and head back to the center of the city or wherever you're from,and I think when you get out and you're exploring the city on fut. You get tosee the restaurants, the hidden spots, whether it's Sushi den or a cupcake orcookie place that you might not have encountered had. You stayed in yourneighborhood and I do think that there are vibrant at areas of restaurant andretail, all of these small businesses that we also want to support and wantto see thrive, especially as we emerge from covid in two thousand and twentyone. But it's a place where you can explore and have fun just a Paroft,walking shoes. And I love doing that. And I also love like getting out on theweekend and looking at like big skis and stars at night, which is hard to doin any city. But if you tuck yourself away in steamboat or you know, kind ofin other areas of the mountains like you'll, see beautiful skies and you'llreally appreciate everything that Colorado has to offer, especially ifyou have the athletic endurance and Lon capacity to take advantage of theattitude an and and continue to do your sport whenever that might be wow, youguys have sold me. I don't forget about the sunshine aswell. Okay, we get three hundred days of Sunshinean year out here. Oh youknow really. I didn't Colis that many it's a lot of Sun. You know coming fromMichigan. You know I get to see sunshine from the months of Novemberthrough April, which is a super appreciated, and you know one of thebiggest things that called out to me. So going back a few years, I worked fora startup in college called Goglov and I worked directly for the two foundersand they called me and said: Hey. You...

...know we're going to go to the ski andStowboard Trade Show in Denver and January, and you know I was figuring.It was going to be subzero temperatures and extremely freezing. I landed inDenver and it was like sixty five degrees late January and that totallylike the rug was just totally pulled, feneath my feet and that I saw all ofthe growth. So many cranes, you know just an active scene all in all, andthat's really, I think, what what really kind of opened my eyes to dunverright. I thought about it as Oh, my gosh us this frigeed climate. It neversees the sun and it was the complete opposite. So That's an interesting Ristory there I love it. I love it well. Yeah I've always enjoyed Denver redrocks is on my to do less yeah. I still have not seen a show there. So yes, Olthey're, not to IG, shows anymore change that Sonsee O my wish list fortwo thousand and twenty ine. Yes, I know I know Berklan Roadtrup well,thank you so much both of you Kendrat just to wrap up. I want listeners toknow how they can reach you both Hendra. Could you let them know and where theycan find you how to reach range ventures? Absolutely. I'm super excitedto have the opportunity to talk to anyone who's looking to move to Denverbe part of a startup in Denver. Our website is ranged at VC. If you want toget in touch with me personally, there is a button o on the website or it'sKendra at range dot BC, so shoot me an email. I would be excited to have aconversation and tell you more of the reasons why, like working or founding acompany and Denver is a great next step for so many people who are excitedabout being part of the high growth really exciting TECHNIICO system likeDenver. Thank you and JP. You are an excellent resource for startups as well.How do listeners get in touch with you? Yes to the audience listing? Thank youso much for tuning in I'm very accessible. You could find me onLinkedin my name, there's JP Pharoh, and then you could also find me ontwitter as well. My handles at Pharaoh,...

John, that's fe, rro, John and I'm justsuper excited to be speaking with anybody, who's in Denver or looking tomove to Denver when helping them on their journey and just a quick bitabout Berklins. You know we help startups, basically focus on what theydo best is growing their business and focusing on their and customers, whilewe help kind of strategically think about their finances and how to get tothat next stage of growth. So super excited to be connected with everybodyand thanks so much for listening. Thank you both so much. I think you know. Ilearned a lot about Denver and the opportunity there, and I know theaudience did as well, and I think you know you both are providing a lot and alot of great insight on you know for founders on what to do in the market.So thank you both will be back next time. You've been listening to start upsuccess to make sure you don't miss out on future episodes subscribe to theshow in your favorite podcast player. Like would you hear tap the number ofstars? You think the show deserves an apple podcast for more tools andresources for your own start up. Success check out BerkelanAssociatescom. Thank you so much for listening until next time.

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