Why Silicon Valley is More Mindset Than Place: A Conversation w/ Jeff Burkland & Andy McLoughlin

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Not everyone can become a successful founder, but a successful founder can come from anywhere. The increasing number of amazing businesses sprouting up throughout the United States is prompting venture capitalists to seek out new ventures all over the country.

In this episode, special guest host Jeff Burkland, Founder & CEO of Burkland, returns! He talks with Andy McLoughlin, Partner at Uncork Capital, about why this shift is occurring and what it means for the future of the startup ecosystem.

Topics covered:

-What makes a good founder

-Helping startups navigate the changing landscape

-Silicon Valley becoming more of a mindset than a place

-Deciding on a remote, in-office, or hybrid model

-Pitching on zoom

This discussion with Andy McLoughlin was taken from our show Startup Success. Andy can be found on LinkedIn here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andymcloughlin/. If you want to hear more episodes like this one, check us out on Apple Podcasts.

If you don’t use Apple Podcasts, you can find every episode here.

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Startup Success in your favorite podcast player.

You know the idea that you invest inMay not be the one, the ultimately pop sound on the other end and goes on toscale and become a big company. But what is absolutely true is that highquality founders will find that way. Welcome to start up success, thepodcast for startup founders and investors here you'll find stories ofsuccess from others in the trenches as they work to scale some of the fastestgrowing startups in the world stories that will help you in your own journeystart up. Success starts now welcome to start up success. Today wehave Jeff Barkland, CEO and founder of Berkly with us today for his secondtime, guest hosting the Shell Jeff's first podcast interview last quarterwas a favorite with listeners. So I'm looking forward to turning the showover to Jeff again today, Jeff Has Andy McLaughlin partner at uncork capitalwith him here today. So let's get going Jeff, I'm going to turn it over to youthanks good. I'm looking forward to my conversation today with Andy as cakementioned. Andy mccaughan is here, and he is a partner at uncork capital, aseed stage, ventric capital firm based in the bay area, part adjoining on Corkin two thousand and fifteen, and he was co founder of Huddle, a London basedenterprise collaboration platform that was acquired in two thousand andseventeen, and he was an active angel investor. Andy thanks for joining methanks to thanks for having me pleasure to be here awesome. Maybe we can startwith where I was right at the end of the INTRO, how to become involved ininvesting and with uncork capital yeah. I mean I guess what's interesting. IsYou know you could talk to a hundred vcs or five hundred PCs and everybodywould have a slightly different path into kind ofinto this job, and I think I think that that's what makes a very gething isthat everybody has a very unique viewpoint. They also havekind of very unique set of experiences, which is you know, as each company roseyou kind of figure out kind of who you're going to bring on board. Alongaside, you to kind of help kind of shape, the business you can kind ofpick and choose based on an on what the company needs for me, though, you know I came at itas a founder and operator turned agonies to we had done a very small secondary with our business.Had L back in, I think twenty twenty ten minuscule by the standards of whatkind of today's boundless seem to be doing. You know it's like a hundred andforty thousand dollars or something, but I like chop change now, yeah right, yeah,it's like around me Ara! I moved to the US and I was living in an apartment. Itwas really just me, and so I didn't have anything to kind of spend thismoney on. So you know wrong. Do something sensible with it, like youknow, put it into an TF for or in soken of at four on K. Ibasically started investing it in to start ups, and these were generallypeople that I knew or people that I'm...

...been introduced to, where I kind offind. With with what they were doing. I ultimately made about forty angelinvestments before kind of jumping over to to becoming a full time. VC. Thevery first and best men I made was in a friend of mine from the UK, a Germanguy who moved down not long after me. I was actually living at my place at thetime who was raising a bit of money for a social media, curation business awhich in retasted you know really a really bad horrible idea. But you knowhe was a close friend and new oral star, and I you know I did basically rocking mycheck and he came back with it. I can vote for no document. I said if yousign this, you could be an investor in by business and through a can couple oftwists and turns that company kind of backflip and cyclic and front flippedand became post mates. So my adventure firm and Cork, which was a previouslyknown a soft, Take C, had let the seed round I'd kind of gotten to know theteam a little bit through that and, ultimately you know, post mates wasacquired by over in a deal. That was kind of value, the business as aboutfive billion dollars when I was certain done not bad before o somebody's, very firstkind of blind angel investments. But you know having gone to know the teamyou know getting to know Jeff and Charles who was a part of their. You know they were looking for a assassfounder Angel investor who is kind of Interestin early state venture, and youknow the kind of starts a line. What I was thinking about, what I want to donext and kind o fast forward, and I joined the team in April two thousandand fifteen, and I kind of had this idea that I wanted to take some timeoff. I was going to wrap the but had on a Christmas time start with Jeff andthe soft teck team in the summer and all the things I wanted to do when Iwas like a kind of cash por and time for bound or I wanted to go to SouthAmor. I couldn't walk much in Pico. I I wanted to spend some kind of time inthe countries in Europe that I never really been to, and, of course whathappened was that the Hubble board wanted me to stay along her and Jeffwanted me to start earlier, and so the six months, O brain got compressed andcompressed and compressed until I inda huddle on April third, which was aFriday and started at softer cone or the sixth, which was a Monday, and Ihave the flu at the time. So can a not not on a head nine, but you know theysay it changes as good as a rest, and that was that was still fun and youmade up for it. You've barked my p t now you've got O no. No. I in the ENTROWE'VE had a couple of a couple of little girls and so kind of all of tourkind of vacation time is kind of doing stuff, which is kind of friendlier forthem, but it's still definitely is is on my list for one day. You know maybeante me again in five years. I, if I have a lit, find a little bit more timeonce they're a bit more autonomous, so yeah I'd love the posit chat about thegirls. I love the fat family, but for our audience of state, that's right now!You know I have to take a moment that would congratulate you on your earlyAngel, Investing Post Mates and I have to imagine there were probably someothers in the forty that you invested in that were pretty pretty decent andyou know, as somebody that also gets an...

...angel investing early on. I have to see I see now why you havethe conoce and I am not a as so much of it is just you know, justtiming and like an access- and I think about the you know in the early days.You know I come out here and had really, I guess, built a reputation for kind ofBritish and European founders who are coming out of somebody who could helpthem. Could it navigate the you know the first steps, so I got to see abunch of really amazing founders who were building great businesses, whojust kind of needed, help kind of landing. You know, through that I I gotto invest in pipe drive. You know they required last year by a private Ecolebusiness for about one point: five billion dollars. I got to invest incalm, who were friends of mine from London who had moved down into calm andtrade io Bucks Mag, who are required earlier this year. So you know it was,I think, being able to meet these great people and being able to kind ofprovide, provide our size value kind of versus the just being pure cash. Ithink that's what makes for a a good engine best ton, and ultimately I e I v.hopefully you know a very good early stage, VC as well, and in one of theseare people that I knew or people that have you know we kind of had in innetwork. But you know sometimes they were. They were kind of random and Iremember I was sharing an office with a friend of mine. This is back when helloprobably eally had about you know they probably had like fifty people in theUK and probably only five out here in the US and a friend of Mine Stephanie,I Rubetski, who was an ex sky person. She mentioned that the way theseEstonian guy is coming over, who got a SMV, Seagram business called pack drive,and you know I think, like a lot of people at the initiation was like. Oh,you know, SB incredibly hard com feels like a one category, and can anybodybuild a meaningful business when you got sales sports in the room, and I waslike I don't know man I mean you know, product website looks cool, but I'm notsure and she's. Like Andy One of the found that s his name is recanati islike okay. Well, how could I not be the SASS founder, whose name is rackmaster,and so you know I just met them and was blown away by. I think the level of itsin they have their early metrics and the project was just a mat just toabsolutely kick out, and it was amazing to see this business, which is startedby these kind of five cookies. Ian Guys become, you know, highly profitabledoing you know hundreds of millions of dollars a year in Narr with customersall over the world, like hundreds of thousands of bit of customers and thenultimately have a really nice kind of majority exit to to a pet, and I thinkit just goes to show that you another Contel, says something about talentbeing dispersed but opportunity. Optimism that you just never know whatgreat pound is are going to come from, and I feel that maybe in the last kindof final ten years you know silicon valves have become kind of far moreopen to looking opportunities and founders. Who may be don't kind of comestraight from silicon valley and roasting couch, and I think you knowyou only have to look at the amazing businesses that have been built in theUK and Easan Central Europe in later...

...you're all over the world. To see thatyou know now, you know we have the opportunity to invest in people to comefrom anywhere and they look like anything and you would be crazy on ttake advantage of that. Okay, we quick part, so you agree to talk with himbecause he had assassin his name yeah Y, a Y P, a is super random yeah, you know a bit of Niet can go a longway, it's very easy to a kind of dismiss something just a it doesn't fitinto the kind of pattern of what you think might you know might make a greatbusiness, and sometimes you just need a dumb nudge to to make you take thatmeeting and I'm no obviously credibly happy that I did so that's great a lotof the language I hear you say in the last few minutes it has to do withfounder, founder, founder founder. Is it fair to say that is kind of whatyou're primarily looking at skills capabilities potential offounders, more so than the opportunity and everything else, that's probablyimportant to but seed stage founders? Is that what I'm hearing it is thee? TE T e very early stages, you know- and I think you know, even as the uncockfunds have gotten bigger and has you've gone a little bit later. You know we'restill at you. We still invested a very very early page, and you know, I thinkwhat we see in time and again, is that you know the idea that you invest inMay not be the one that ultimately pop sound on the other end and goes on toscale and become a big company. But what is absolutely true is that highquality founders will find that way, and you owe you invest in people thathave the you know the ritten determination. You know to really kindof run through wars and never take no for an answer and obviously can n youknow they have Tameth intellectual horse power to kind of figure stuff outas well. If you can find those people, then you know they have a good a shotas anybody and actually making something work. Now I think you knowyour see, can o invest in businesses where you just don't think it's goingto work. So it's kind of a case of investing in found, as you like, withbusinesses that you, the past, you don't hate in it probably kind ofQutitte s that that I think that holds true and the number of times we've hadfounders come in and you just kind of sent something special and I think, andof having been a founder as well- and I was probably you know a reasonably okayfounder. But when I look at the founders who I would idolize, who Ijust thought were incredible, just the I think the center purpose and thesheer determination, the the level of Congrat and you desire to kind of towin. Those are the people that you want to back and I think what we've alsoseen is that you know courting Hamilton. Immigrants get the job done and youknow we love investing in inimica founders or maybe even secondgeneration immigrants, because I think for kind of tenements they come here.You know it's very easy to fall in love with the the Silicon Valley Life Star.So you know the weather kind of out side of something is got in. Thesummertime is amazing. You have access to make sure of. You really feel likeyou're at the percent. Ree of everything. That's going on you comehere. You build a life as you started family. You know you will run throughwalls and move mountains to to make your business successful and I think itmay be for a second generation over and square. You know they've seen thestruggles their parents go through. You...

...know they are so determined to. I guesskind of make their make their parents proud a kind of show that you know thethe hardships of the past. They put them themselves through in the earlydays, have been kind of repaid through their you know, through theirchildren's success and so they're always kind of. I think there has to bean angle, and there has to be something that kind of when you look at a founderand you know she or he you just see something credibly special, a mat. Ithink that's right at it is you if I wasn't doing this, would I want to goand work for them, because I'm so excited about kind of what they'rebuilding in the way they're building it? It's a pretty good good God check. I've heard that framework I like thatframe work, and so the pictures be coming pretty clear. Then, to you knowfind these founders that you really love in a business. You don't hate, andthen you know your value had for those founderies is help them aviate, thatchanging landscape that they that they go through and all the through theexperience you have. We love to invest in in people thathave just a yeah, an undter advantage and what they're building and you knowthat could come through having work in a particular industry. It could comethrough some kind of academic research. You could come through just you knowsome kind of particular insight because of their age or where they're from orkind of some, inter or you know, some some kind of, but the interest they had.I do I what we you know, what we try and do is find these amazing people andkind of craft them into great CIS, like like no first time founder, is anamazing to see you out of the box, but you're looking for kind of the rawmaterials that you can help them become the person that passed they weredestined to be, and that's to me by helping them think about. You know whatdoes greatness look like in terms of building a team. You know what. How canwe leverage on er work to help them go even faster and then also kind of withfund racing? I don't think any founder at that. Somebody. The beginning needsto be to be an expert in in the vital landscape, as port can actuallyunhealthy for for founders to become too enamored by by fundraising and meanfundraising. I the means I mean it's not something that necessarily thatshould be celebrated is something that you can use the toll to help me. TakeYour Business to the next phase, but you know the eventual landscape fromthe outside is big and nebulous, and probably you know- and it's tough tokind of get your head around and I think what we can help his kind ofreally peeling away the kind of layers of the onion kind of figuring out, whoare the the small number of porters and firmness who we think are really goingto get what they're doing who're going to be excited about what they'rebuilding and where we a kind of short cut to a great color result on on pulling aroundtogether. You know, I think, when you live and breathe kind of the venture cosystem like we do. It feels like second nature, but I think you have toremember the folks who have never done this before it can be on. You can feelvery insminton, so you know we kind of want to act as that that shutter orthat guide to to help great people can navigate. Whatcan be a you know a pretty daunting task. No, no doubt we see that a lottoo a bit back. I heard you say you know something o the effective. Lastfive years Silicon Valley has been you know, increasingly looking beyond itsown borders for founders that could come from fromm anywhere.

That might lead us a bit to yourthoughts on you know what this eventual, depending on Delta Post pandemiclandscape, looks like you know, what do you think? What are you seeing that maybe different coming out? It wasn't start up, and perhaps in the primacy ofSilicon Valley Yeah. I think I guess talking about Silken Valley. First, you know we'd seen this gratcher shiftover the last few years of Silicon Valley being kind of more of amindset and a way to build a business than a place. No obviously, the still Iyou know de concentration of you, know incredible companies within kind offorty miles of of Palo Alto, but you know that concentration has become lessso lity know we're seeing and great companies being built and of all overthe US and North America, and you know and Reland, read the world out and Ithink what was very telling was, over the last kind of two or three years,even prior to coved. Seeing more and more of you know thethe the very mess adventure funds begin to establish offices in kind of nonsilicon value location so to Corean like speed opening up in Europe, wenotise great success for some of the Funan kind of with their India andtheir China operations. People fronts putting people in in Israel andI think for the companies themselves. You know what what happened back inMarch was also everybody had to had to work from home, and I and all of asudden I didn't matter kind of work home was I and you could be next doorto the office or elsewhere in the state, or you know arendsee in the country,and I think especially for for people who were you know not from the bay areaor the hats. You know who you were struggling to kind of keep the head ofa water given kind of the strates very cost of living. Here, all of a sudden,it was an opportunity to go and try being somewhere else past being closerto family. You could help them with children being closer to you, knowtheir friends and their high school friends and whatever else or perhapsyou know just trying something new, you know going to live in another placebecause you didn't need to be in the office every single day, and you know I,I think the big question- and you know we're hearing this from the port follyon like on a weekly basis. Now is you know? What do we think is going to looklike in six months or a year or eighteen months from now, and also Idon't doubt there is going to be. You know a bunch of the people who didleave are going to come back. I also think that a lot of people who havefigured out that perhaps they can work just as well from from anywhere aregoing to have a Tokat new style of working, and you know perhaps you knowthere will be. Some companies will be completely remote and everybody's worksat home. Some companies are going to have tons of people at differentlocations. You know that's going to be kind, a certain kind of kind ofcritical mass centers in large cities, and perhaps they get a we work or someother kind of office space there at the sum you know they they will basicallysay hey. You know this has been fun but we're going to manda coming back in theoffice and you don't need to be in every day, but we want to see you twoor three days a week. I think what's clear, though, from all theconversations we've had is that people are still figuring this out and there'sgoing to be no kind of one solution that works for every single business.It's going to be kind of whatever is...

...right for you. Some companies kind ofwent fully remote before the end they're, making the were able toembrace it. You know I get the sense of some that was remote as kind of work.They feel like they're, just keeping their head of of water and a little bitand people are excited to get back to the office in some form. At some pointswe just don't know when and kind of you know to what level you have to have a feel for the markersthat suggest would suggest whether abusiness seems to be better off Komo tly, fully in person hybrid model,remote pods, probably remote, Oh gosh, I mean, I would say if the CO is stillliving in the city, that the business was based on before and the exact teamof there. That would suggest to me that this probably going to be a strong kindof return to office culture. I think if the CO has moved away- and you knowthey being hiring exacts kind of all over the country all over the world,then you know that would be a pretty strong market that they will go they'll,probably kind of go fully remote, a kind of you, a pash remote. I justthink that everyone is still figuring this out, and you know a lot of peoplehave some very strong opinions about kind of were the next sip of pravitytech is going to be, or will there be sent for gravities, but I think, what'sclear is that people's opinions are changing pretty quickly and justbecause you might feel a one way to day doesn't certainly doesn't mean thatthat's going to how things are going to look a year from now is, as thingsbegin to shake out. I think of the. What we also are seeing is that youknow office costs in the major centers are reducing, and perhaps you know thatprovides a pull back. I mean there are just so many factors that could lead topeople being in an office or not and where the office is that it's reallyhard to really hard to kind of, to figure out on a PU company basis oreven kind of but ate at a high level basis kind of what what that means. Foryou know for silicon family as a whole, the a a upas I heard something, as was many months ago now,but in the band. Even there used to be this discussion about you now where'sthe ex helicon vally. It was always geobacter. I okne what I read as well.Something about La will still be primer. With the next silicon tell I will beremote, a interesting thought, yeah and e H, and I think that the thing thatwill kind of drive stilicon valley in the way that we see it today for thefor the you know, the forcible future is still going to be the concentrationof capital that's here and that you know for for companies who don't have a Silicon Valley presence. You know oncewe get back to kind of leaving in the office and once the kind of norms ofyou know, Monday partner meetings or whatever else, a kind of reestablishedbooks are going to have to come and spend time here, you're, probably morelikely than not to actually have face time with investors and you and I athinking of that concentration of Capel. It's going to be what going to keepsilicon bally together. But you know we've already seen a bit of you knoweven frying to covet a bit of this beginning to to dissipate. You KnowCompany is for setting up in Austin,...

...you know kind of more firms in theMidwest and in New York, and so I don't I you know. I have no doubt thatsilicon value will be. You know in terms of a geographical stand. Pointwill be less important twenty years from now than it is today, but I thinkthe bequest is how much less important- and you know what's the was speedtowards that or Residin. Is it something which is just very gradualand will look around in a couple of their kids time and say: okay, it'sdifferent, but it just doesn't it never film radically. So you know, my guessis: Is the latter New York is primary for finance, butthere are a lot of other places where that's moving out to Bassot is eatingthe world. It has to go beyond Silicon Valley, but I think that's great. Iknow I remember kind of having this conversation with a lot of kind ofBritish Onfredo who were thinking about coming out to the US. I think your foot for bricks and for Europeans,but the US still could of hold this kind of story. Eyed fascination asbeing kind of you know the the center of the universe, for you know forfinance, for movies, for music for venture and you and what I would say tofounders. As you know, just you know take a very, I think, a very criticallook at Your Business and you actually ask yourself honestly, you know: Do youactually need to be here, you know: Does the business need to be based inthe bay area or are you be suited by being somewhere else den, if you'redoing something in the entertainment or our space? Silvan Valley is definitelynot the place of revolving that you're doing something in finance or fashion,probably not as well, and you know, and if your business is tented aroundserving European customers. You absolutely definitely shouldn't beshouldn't, be based out here and I think what we seen more and more kindof back to the only point is that Pilican Mel s, the seeing the I guess alot, only the arbitrage opportunity, investing aswer, but all just kind ofyou know the absolute opportunity investing us where that now, if theycan get great deals in in huge towns, why would they restrict themselves tolooking at businesses the debased within Twenty Mites of their office? Arite? Could I'd like to look back at remote work and whether or notbusinesses go remember I'll start with a little story that I found fascinating?I was talking with a head of ar of a start up and at the start of Covin.They were. You know these numbers on boat, but roughly they're about fiftypeople in the bay area and now they're pushing five hundred by the end of nextthe end of the year that we close to nine hundred people. You know, of course, they've beenremote during ovid right. They were fifty in the start, come, but nowthey're going to be like five hundred and nine hundred, not all in a bay here.This is a general idea. What a fascinating question do they goback to you know? Do they do something person thing and how do they do it,starting with a clean slate right? They got. They got knowing that it fucked upoffice infrastructure yeah. I think you know for the companies who were removedto begin with God, but or have gone through this kind of strates Torygrowth, where they've had to basically engineer a business to function withoutofficers. I see those as being you know the ones who are most likely to you tonever kind of take an h space again or...

...if they have an HQ with purely symbolacan in cern somewhere where people come and they spend a bit of time and it'skind of clarita spaces, but as desks and offices. But you know thosebusinesses, I mean those are the ones that you read about, but they are stillthe exception versus the normal. You know, and most companies from a headcount standpoint, don't look radically different from from from how the Lordsbefore coved and for those you know those are the ones who I see. You knowthat being a desire to get back to the office, because that's what I've workedfor them ahead of time and they're, probably thinking about how that'sgoing to work for them a kind of one. You know one of the county return towork, but you know again some mo to my earlypoint. It is you know each company is different, so you a, I think it wouldbe. It would be dangerous and lazy to say: Okay, this is going to be thestandard that applies to everybody of this company size because you know somuch of it is to do with the you know, the motivations of the exacts and theteam, and also the type of business your building. But if it's say, ifyou're going of building a highly product, er growth bottoms of businesswith very few sales, people remote, probably works great because your teamscan be based anywhere. But you know what we think from our our companiesthat have a strong kind of sales like motion thesales people are the ones who are really saying hey. You know we want tobe back in the office. You know we want to be kind of work in the book and wewant to feel the energy and kind of camaraderie of a sale of team who kindof a inning together, and you know that for them is very important, but againyou know there's no kind of one right handy for every single business. Well,I think that you know your any point about the salting it it's fascinateconsidering Silis. Historically, then re traveling a lot, but they loveculture too, and I think all quit all companies, no matter whether theyhaven't grown much and they had office culture before or whether they'reremote. Like the example, I gave need to think about their culturebecause that's part of what provides some glue to the company, we have been remote almost since thebeginning, we're almost all remote since fifteen years ago and I'll say with experience it's youknow you have to put some real thought into the culture and without a culture.Luckily, I haven't seen this from experience, but without culture. Ihappen to know that you can lose people really easily there's a real lecticachallenge, and I don't know exactly where I'm going withthis. I don't know if you've thought a little bit about the culture question,but I think that's in my mind. One of the key questions related to whether ornot to be reverted or back in person is how you address culture yeah and youand your culture is a what you know was a big, a big watch word. Even evenpreconvey people really office and it's a word that can be kind of misused andmisconstrue. You know it's, regardless of kind of you know, of whatthe wrong ter name around kind of you know being together or not it is. Youknow, I think, the the leadership and the CEO and and whoever is kind ofmanaging people. There has to be a lot...

...of thought and kind of purpose. Put itto it, and you know regardless which path you take. I think you you theyneed to be very explicit about it. There needs to be both for people who are being droughton you and also for the existing team. You the there has to be buying andthere has to be. There has to be discussion and I thinkevery person's desires a difference, and you know if you decide that youaren't going to go remote. I don't doubt there are going to be some peoplewho say, look, that's cool, but it's not for me. You know I want to be backin an office and likewise, if you're going to talk about return to work andbeing back in officer, Goin be people who have really kind of celled with theidea of working from home. Who will say look this is this isn't for me and Ithink, as the you know, as we've seen some of the big companies, where youknow Google, of trying to find something which is still kind of anoffice based culture but which which caters the people being based anywherenow and creating new hubs in major cities around the UR, some kind ofallowing people to work from anywhere for like four to six weeks a year. I think what that tells me is that eventhe biggest best brand companies in the world is still figuring, the sounds, and you know and who knows kind of whatthey're you know what their men they will be a year from now. But you know this. This is a brat youworld for for everybody I think could have be. You know, familes and exactskind of have to be okay with the fact that they're probably going to screw abunch of this stuff up- and you know, but I think, as long as they can bereactive and learn and figure out what's right to their own business, andyou know not just kind of look across and see what the what I know you know agreat business down the street is doing or not. You know that I think that'sthe best that we can ask for and that you know there will be best practicesand there will be things that obviously, a kind of you know demonstrable badideas. But ultimately you know when we invest. We invest in great people thatwe think have the best son of figuring stuff out and it's not just aboutbuilding a great product and a great go to marking machine. It's how you builda great company to support those things are those things you know they need tobe figured out as well. Great Yea I do want to learn is what I'm hearing there.We've talked about a lot that I think start up. Founders cantake and apply to their thinking about their business. But as a broad question,is there anything else that you'd like to say what advice would you give otheradvice you'd give to start at the founders today I mean, I think, that for the you knowfor the new future for us, so I think we're probably reasonably typical here.You know a lot of a lot of fun raising is going to continue to happen on zoom,I would say at least through the MAC end of this year, and you knowpotentially in the next year, and so I mean it's amazing that you know this isvery basic kind of like what I want advice. But you know investing in ahigh quality set up around. You know your AV and your lighting and yourintenet connection, because nothing can...

...kill a good pitch faster than not beingable to see or hear or understand the person giving it you'd. Be You besurprised or maybe not. You know how often we still kind of run intotechnical issues when you know when we're kind of receiving these pictures,despite the fact that these founders have been working from home for atleast a year and probably longer at this point, I think you know, we've always beenpretty comfortable with people kind of doing pictures of Oly. You know we'dalways wanted to have at least one of the partners meet with a person inperson. But you know we got, you know we got pretty good pretty quickly, butthe fact that that wasn't going to be wasn't going to be possible, but somuch of it is still around kind of bringing energy. You know, how do youkind of you know really show the Interceder ing the pitch and you know and help you best to believethat you know you are the right person to build this business. You know whatwe've seen in the last kind of fifty or twenty years is that you know thebarriers to went through kind of building and company and becoming lowerand lower, and you know it's ideas. REFECTI be pretty cheap at this pointthat you might have a great idea, and you know inevitably there will be abunch of fast followers, and so you know if you do have something whichfeels like a unique, take or unique idea. How can you convince the VC thatyou are the person who is going to be able to execute on it best and wefaster than anybody else and can and outrun inevitable competition and having a good, a good thingpresence health with convincing them and yeah? And it does a d I mean I feel,like I kind of been of an idiot or kind of having to say this. Is it feels likeit should be so blindingly obvious, but yeah a few last things as we wrap up. I was Iwas looking at. How are you a Nne, so I I remember just thinky you and I met a honestly. A pretty crappy restaurant inyou ally is which just happens to be one of seaun Jacobson's absolutefavorites, like I one able to get it, get an answer from short about why helikes this place so much and it's a it's a restaurant on Burman Street. Wewere there for the collision conference when it was being hosted in in NewOrleans, and I think you and I basically that I ended up sittingtogether and when I try and describe what I do tolike my parents. You know who you really have no idea. I think theykind of understood what I did when I was an onpenitent know being an onlystage vc the like. So you know you're working finance, I'm like well, notreally. Okay, now I'm kind of in the business of connecting people likefinding talent that connecting them, I mean actually have more in common witha music or a sports talent agent than Ido with someone who works some kind of war, three finance and a big part ofyou know of my job is helping. You know, connect my you know our port folio onthe founders to people that can kind of help them move more quickly, and Ithink you know I remember kind of sitting next to you, Jip and hearingabout you know the the business that...

...you built around cove, outsourcefinance and CFS, and it's honestly a problem. Every single one aboutcompanies has- and you know I I think it's been great- that we've been ableto find so many great businesses to to work on together, and I think, when youknow when I spoken with with folks on your team and when I've connected themwith with founders, I can always be very clear about the expectations interms of you know. Jeff and his team will take great care of you, butultimately their job is to get you to the point where you don't need them anymore. I don't think what amazing is to say, and you probably see this with thethe businesses where you know you were instrumental in kind of basicallyhelping them, not Korob for the first two or three years of their life, andthen you know they graduate on and they hire a VP finance or a CFO, and I on,if you saw today that one of the arly businesses that you work with humaninterests just announced two hundred million dollar funding round, and youknow- and you know that must be great. I mean you o. You most must feel like aproud parent to that point, because you know you help them. Take the kind ofverse baby steps towards you know becoming an independent standard, lowbusiness, and you know now they're off. You know raising hundreds and billionsof dollars and going like crazy, and you know- and I think that's what'sNice is you know, being able to talk to complicated, say: Look, you know,Jeffes team will take great care of you and don't just take it from me. Don'ttake it from them to talk t enty of the companies they work with over over theyears, I'm so glad and met there on Bourbon street a lift five rounds ofsugar. Exactly a yes exactly that was a good restaurant good conference tocollision well actually wrap up. I mean I'd loveto hear. If maybe we can help the audience understand even a little bitbetter sort of uncork. We talked a lot about it, but you know give it a rap up.If you would, if a the overview background of uncork capital, fantasticVC, firm, forcee yeah for we've been around for about a gosh. It's likealmost seventeen years now at this point and I'm one of the OG sceneinvestor started by my partner, Jeff Clabe, so I think jeff found on thefirm in like two thousand and three twothousand four invested his own money. First of all,you know raised one of the first superagency fifteen million dollar fund,which is your kind of a s comically small by today's standards, currently investing out of our six Futt,which is a hundred million dollar se vehicle know. What Jefferson I agreewith him is that you know we've always done see. This visit seed has changedand see. This goton has gotten bigger and you know back in the day. He waswriting writing. At a hundred K, T R K checksyour now. We like to lead or Colead seed rounds, writing checks of betweenone point: Five and two million dollars in rounds of often cove between threeand five million. You know for us, you know when restacross the board consumer marketplace, it's about. Twothirds of what we do is is be to b software, develop e tollinginfrastructure, botica industry,...

...software tventy productivity, future ofwork I mean all I do is me to be now. I'm a simple man. I need a a subscription model to make mecomfortable, but you know I love businesses where you know they made me,look a little bit on the Saxe they're serving on sex industries, your toolsfor developers, you know stuff, which you know, would you know traditionallykind of have gotten kind of people hard to get excited. But I think what we seenow is the opportunity in these businesses is its huge. You knowdeveloper tools or you know fueling, and you know the great software beingbuilt across the world. You know we're seeing great companies who are helpingold fashioned industries, kind of move faster and act better, and just youknow, with every with every year that goes by. There are your opportunitiesto help companies act like the best companies of the world through how theysell or market themselves on how they build and how they managed their team.And so you know all of that stuff. We absolutely love. We vest across bothAmerica, so us and Canada. You still walking of a lot of a lot is on thecoast. So from you know, Silicon Valley, Seattle, Poland era, Menon on the EastCoast, Boston, New York, Philly, but you know, we've got forFILER COMPANIES IN CHICAGO AND ASTIN UTAH UP IN TORONTO, Waterloo the WestCoast of Canada. You know, I think, for us, you know driver, as we talked aboutearlier, driven very much by by the founders and the mission, and you know,but we want to be able to be helpful here, we're looking for businesses thatare focusing on the North American market. You know where we can help themwith customers and we can help them with kind of getting up and running andthen helping them got hopefully gone and raise lots of money to build. Akind of you know: Big Important Legacy Companies Asoman. Thank you what agreat way to start to start to wrap this up to hear your daughter ordaughters. I could tell this one or two in the background: the Romeo. Almosttwo year old, I just got home from a walk, so she bang on the door in a second raoere. We are right, my good weland you thank you forjoining us. I'M gonna turn it back over the Cape. Thank you. Both. It was likebeing out at coffee with you too. So that's always a sign of a goodconversation. So thank you. We hope to have you again some time Andy andthanks to our listeners will catch you next time. On Start Up, success you've been listening to start upsuccess. To make sure you don't miss out on future episodes subscribe to theshow in your favorite podcast player. Like would you hear tap the number ofstars? You think the show deserves an apple podcast for more tools andresources for your own start up. SUCCESS CHECK OUT BERGLAND ASSOCIATESCOM. Thank you so much for listening to Mike time, T.

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